Health Care - STOP believeing the BULL and buying the SCAM

[ElasticNinja]

Yeah? Like someone from the UK talking about the US system?

uh research mate
I have relations in the US
I have friends with most of their family there

FYI, it has been reported on numerous occasions in many national media outlets, that the UK is looking to get rid of their system that just isn't working like they thought it would.

eh links please
The UK model works fine, of course it needs to continue to evolve with the times

 

[byteware]

If you have top-notch insurance in UK it wont cover you to go to Spain
AFAIK if you have top-notch insurance in Alabama it will cover you to go to North Carolina

Negative. You have "in-network" rates and "out-of-network" rates

Many insurance companies will even pay for "out of country" care.

I've even heard of some insurance companies paying for (at the customer's request, it was not the recommended treatment plan by the insurance company) the entire

And our medical treatment does not suck
Ireland has a fairly screwed up two teir system but even that is excellent (but costly)
UK has excellent treatment which is provided at a lower GDP PC % than here

Excellent treatment IF you can't afford better.

 

[partridge]

I live in the UK and enjoy the benefits that the National Health System offers. It doesn't cost me anywhere near 50% of my pay, it's all lumped into my taxes which is somewhere around 23% of my pay.

Why would it cost 50% of a US citizens pay for national healthcare in the US? Is that a made up figure? Your health insurance isn't free, but you wouldn't need to pay for that if a national system came in would you, so you wouldn't, overall, be losing 50% anyway.

If a citizen is expected to live by the rules of a government and pay them taxes to run that country, then they have the right to expect something back, whether that's policing, a fire brigade, rubbish collection or an ambulance that takes you to a hospital if you get hit by a car.

There are plenty of things a government should not concern themselves with but it's also a fact that no country will ever achieve 100% employment, so why should those out of work (they are not all work shy slackers) go without health care in the event of an accident or illness?

You're fine with your taxes paying for a war thousands of miles away, but you don't want them being spent of saving lives within your country?

In the UK nearly half a million public sector workers could be out of a job over the next few years as part of our governments plan to save billions off of our national debt. What do those people supposed to do if they need medical services? If they're not working I doubt they could all pay for health insurance.

No system is perfect, the NHS isn't perfect but I'd rather have that than a system that literally puts a price on a persons life, even if that means other countries (like the US) tend to get the latest advances in medical science first.

 

[Mr. Boom]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/25/world/europe/25britain.html?_r=2&hp=&pagewanted=all

 

[ElasticNinja]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/25/world/europe/25britain.html?_r=2&hp=&pagewanted=all

Yeah heard about this, cutting UNNESSECCARY buraucracy is a good thing, and technology has made it much more efficient, therefore extra workers are unneeded
Its obvious what the heath sec is doing, making out HUGE cuts to implement.
We all know he will negotiate with the unions, get about half the cuts in numbers he layed out, and thats exactly what he wants

 

[ElasticNinja]

Negative. You have "in-network" rates and "out-of-network" rates

Many insurance companies will even pay for "out of country" care.

I've even heard of some insurance companies paying for (at the customer's request, it was not the recommended treatment plan by the insurance company) the entire

my cousin works in an insurance call center and said that you cant get cover to get treatment abroad

Regarding the healthcare oinnovation thing - I was thinking
Europe SUCKS at venture capital
The classic example is the MP3
I hope the EU tries to fix this :/

Excellent treatment IF you can't afford better.

No you can get excellent treatment there anyway, but if you pay more you can avoid waiting lists for non-emergency things
Also stuff like non-cancer related plastic-surgery ovbviously comes out of your own pocket
There are more cutting edge treatments in the US of coirse tho

 

[byteware]

I live in the UK and enjoy the benefits that the National Health System offers. It doesn't cost me anywhere near 50% of my pay, it's all lumped into my taxes which is somewhere around 23% of my pay.

Why would it cost 50% of a US citizens pay for national healthcare in the US? Is that a made up figure? Your health insurance isn't free, but you wouldn't need to pay for that if a national system came in would you, so you wouldn't, overall, be losing 50% anyway.

Ok, just to address this... I ALREADY pay 25% of my income in taxes.

I already have health insurance, but my employer pays the majority of my premium.

Taking that money out of my income would result in another 25% of my paycheck coming out in taxes.

And that's JUST paying for MY healthcare. That's not including paying for OTHER people's health care.

 

[byteware]

my cousin works in an insurance call center and said that you cant get cover to get treatment abroad

Well, I'm glad your cousin speaks for every insurance plan in the nation.

Health Insurance Companies Promoting Medical Tourism

Unfortunately, working in a call center doesn't make him any kind of authority on what is happening in an entire industry.

No you can get excellent treatment there anyway, but if you pay more you can avoid waiting lists for non-emergency things
Also stuff like non-cancer related plastic-surgery ovbviously comes out of your own pocket
There are more cutting edge treatments in the US of coirse tho

Oh absolutely. From a profits standpoint, innovating in the UK, or Canada would be pointless...wouldn't it?

 

[ElasticNinja]

Well, I'm glad your cousin speaks for every insurance plan in the nation.

Health Insurance Companies Promoting Medical Tourism

Unfortunately, working in a call center doesn't make him any kind of authority on what is happening in an entire industry.

certainly not on authority on the entire industry no
Its not available with the company she works for

Oh absolutely. From a profits standpoint, innovating in the UK, or Canada would be pointless...wouldn't it?

Not pointless
Probably not as lucrative as it is in the US tho

 

[byteware]

certainly not on authority on the entire industry no
Its not available with the company she works for
Not pointless
Probably not as lucrative as it is in the US tho

Not lucrative at all. Because the UK and Canada control the price of procedures and medicines via laws, those markets are unprofitable for innovative treatments.

The US bears the brunt of those costs.

If the US instituted laws similar to the UK and Canada, innovation would dry up here too.

 

[IOWA]

Not lucrative at all. Because the UK and Canada control the price of procedures and medicines via laws, those markets are unprofitable for innovative treatments.

The US bears the brunt of those costs.

If the US instituted laws similar to the UK and Canada, innovation would dry up here too.

Yeah what these people from other countries fail to realize, is they are leeching off of our American Money, our research, and without us, they wouldn't even have proper healthcare to begin with. If we went their way, medical research would come to a screeching halt.

 

[ElasticNinja]

Yeah what these people from other countries fail to realize, is they are leeching off of our American Money, our research, and without us, they wouldn't even have proper healthcare to begin with. If we went their way, medical research would come to a screeching halt.

eh you do realise we do lots of research here too, right?
Especially in Nordic countries (socialised healthcare )

 

[byteware]

eh you do realise we do lots of research here too, right?
Especially in Nordic countries (socialised healthcare )

Which major drugs/treatments have been pioneered there in the last ten years?

 

[IOWA]

eh you do realise we do lots of research here too, right?
Especially in Nordic countries (socialised healthcare )

Mind comparing your list of breakthroughs vs the u.s.?

 

[Bob Maxey]

Mind comparing your list of breakthroughs vs the u.s.?

As I see it, many countries contribute to the science of medicine. But I am guessing that the U.S. of A. contributes the most.

Bob Maxey

 

[Bob Maxey]

eh you do realise we do lots of research here too, right?
Especially in Nordic countries (socialised healthcare )

Very true. Ask Mr. Google and you will see Ireland has done quite a bit. They also contributed The Celtic Women, a favorite group.

Bob Maxey

 

[edenfrost]

I am from the US. My family is still there. I live in Canada.

The crap you hear about how bad the Canadian system is...is a GIANT LIE. I have my family Doctor that I picked as does everyone else. At one point I had two of them...lol. I was moving from one end of the city to another so there was overlap. One was male the other female BUT BOTH GOOD PEOPLE and DOCTORS.

We have some of the BEST hospitals in the world and made some of the biggest breakthrough in medicine.
Google Sick Kids Hospital.

We have NOTHING to worry about should anything happen to us.
They send a firetruck and ambulance to help you. You have no idea as to that FREEDOM. Think about it. Your decisions for life and death is decided by your HMO. Mine is decided by my fellow Citizens which is a mutually assured protected self serving interest system.

Yes, we have some improvements to make to the system.
We do that based on the research. We do our best to ensure the money is being spent wisely and to not waste. Let's say for whatever reason you feel that you are getting shafted. Just send an email to any news outlet and watch how instantly it is fixed.
Politicians FEAR the results for messing with people's Healthcare but they grew up understanding he importance of it to the country and their family therefore they for the most part do NOT mess with it. Mess with health care and YOU and YOUR PARTY will SUFFER for YEARS of not a decade. See the built in safeguards to keep the politics out of it.

If I see my family Dr. for whatever "issue" WE decide what specialist I can go see for further help. I decide who I see.
Sure I may have to wait for a month for an MRI scan if it's something MINOR...big deal, priority BUT if they see or feel or think there is a serious problem then it happens ASAP as in right away or the next day.

True Story- Family friend, male 48 at the time, non smoker, non drinker, not over weight...went in for a physical, Dr. did not like the sound of his heart beat...sent him down for x-rays and blood work.
Result- he was being operated on the next morning because they found a blockage in his artery. I think he had a double or quadruple bypass. See that, no waiting, NO APPROVAL NEEDED FROM ANYONE, and NO FEAR of losing his house to pay for the surgery.
They said had he not come in for his checkup he would likely been dead within the month or two.

I am free to go see more Doctors for the 2nd or 3rd opinion.
Our Doctors (at least the 10 or so I have come across plus the 4 or so that I know socially) will do WHATEVER they can to help the patient. There is NO BOARD OR HMO to get approval from.
THAT is such a F'ing joke that you need an HMO to approve treatment. WRONG!


God forbid the crap I see people have to suffer from in the US.
It is sad that you have to choose losing your house or healing a sick child. That is just WRONG on every level of being a human.

If you pay for car insurance and or house insurance then you know all you are doing is spreading your risk amongst the pool of people to keep your rates affordable. Those things have a definite replacement cost, fixing a human does not. We have a SOCIAL MEDICAL SYSTEM. It is more of a moral and fundamental belief system and makes economic sense.

A nation has only 2 things to keep it prosperous and from being "conquered"1. Education - a stupid nation can not make anything to advance 2. Health - A sick nation will just kill themselves and just be too weak to work and easy to "invade". Think about it. Do you want a country that is smart and healthy or dumb and sickly?

Think about this.
Health care is probably the ONLY business where a company has to keep spending money to fix the patient BUT how or why would you expect that company to spend their money on you. You or your family member could be a "money pit" to them. They have share holders to pay and CEO's etc... They have to show financial growth every year so they DRAW the line which is YOU. YOU have a price tag to them and they have the power to just say NO or change the rules. Do you think that is a fair moral and ethical system?

btw if you are a prolife advocate then by default you should also be anti-HMO. At some point that HMO will make a decision to let you DIE.

TRUE STORY...A Dr. friend of mine asked me an ethical and financial question. They said a baby will be born BUT we already know it has a grave disease as it has no brain and will be dead in less than a month. Should we abort it, or kill it at birth, because at the end of the day we will spend THOUSANDS of dollars on immanent failure and that money could be saved for other people.

They asked me what would I do. It was a damn hard question to answer given the indisputable FACTS. I said I am a realist and like to save money wherever possible BUT this is a damn tough choice because whether you believe in God or not you are setting the standard to kill a life due to money. I said I would do what we can to keep it alive for as long as we can. We should do our best to treat the baby with dignity and respect and yes, spend the money. Money can be replaced, human life and the morality of humanity can not be.

I hope none of you ever run into having a HMO tell you no, we spent the allotted funds on your kid, no more will be spent meaning they will die. Is that the country you want? So big deal, we suck it up and pay the extra 5 cents or $1 it would cost me as a tax payer to keep the defective baby alive in dignity. I will sleep better at night. It just means I skip buying a cup of coffee that month if I drank coffee...lol (damn 1 Starbucks coffee could save 5 lives)

Greed and making money from the sick and dying will NEVER work in your favor if you are the "sick" or your child is...at some point we will all pretty much be the "sick". Your decisions today will provide the answer and result you need for YOUR tomorrow.


Got questions? Feel free to ask. I will be happy to try and answer them.

btw- The Canadian system was good enough when Sarah Palin sneaked her family in for treatment when she was poor as she stated but yet our system was not good enough for the rest of you...hmmmm

Thanks for sharing. I have always wanted to move to Canada but everyone always says the health care is bad there, I didn't believe them.

 

[Bob Maxey]

If a citizen is expected to live by the rules of a government and pay them taxes to run that country, then they have the right to expect something back, whether that's policing, a fire brigade, rubbish collection or an ambulance that takes you to a hospital if you get hit by a car.

There are plenty of things a government should not concern themselves with but it's also a fact that no country will ever achieve 100% employment, so why should those out of work (they are not all work shy slackers) go without health care in the event of an accident or illness?

You're fine with your taxes paying for a war thousands of miles away, but you don't want them being spent of saving lives within your country?

In the UK nearly half a million public sector workers could be out of a job over the next few years as part of our governments plan to save billions off of our national debt. What do those people supposed to do if they need medical services? If they're not working I doubt they could all pay for health insurance.

No system is perfect, the NHS isn't perfect but I'd rather have that than a system that literally puts a price on a persons life, even if that means other countries (like the US) tend to get the latest advances in medical science first.

Sadly, we must put a price on a person

 

[Bob Maxey]

Well, I'm glad your cousin speaks for every insurance plan in the nation.

Health Insurance Companies Promoting Medical Tourism

Unfortunately, working in a call center doesn't make him any kind of authority on what is happening in an entire industry.

Oh absolutely. From a profits standpoint, innovating in the UK, or Canada would be pointless...wouldn't it?

I agree, it is a non-issue. If it were required by law, we all would pay higher premiums. I took a quick look and apparently, insurance is available if you need it or want it.

BTW: I know someone that works in a call center for a major electronics company and she knows nothing past the script she follows in a "If they ask this, then say this" scenario. Call center people are not the best source of info for the company they represent.

I say if this is an issue for some, simply ask your agent about coverage options.

Bob