Ukraine…

[rootabaga]

Something I believe we can all agree on is the awful disaster befalling Ukraine and its people. I also feel for the Russian people and soldiers as they have been lied to about Putin’s war and are suffering as well.

 

[ocnbrze]

i agree with you. this war is terrible. so much heartache. so much tragedy. it did not have to come to this.

i also feel bad for the Russian athletes who can't participate because of putin's war. how people can side with him is beyond me.

 

[Dannydet]

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
What really gets me is that Ukraine is not part of Nato...
Well then, how about sending in military forces from the Nato countries into Ukraine and occupy it? Then see what Putin does. If he attacks then he'll be destroyed.
I just can't watch the Ukraine people being slaughtered while the world sits on their hands.....

 

[rootabaga]

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
What really gets me is that Ukraine is not part of Nato...
Well then, how about sending in military forces from the Nato countries into Ukraine and occupy it? Then see what Putin does. If he attacks then he'll be destroyed.
I just can't watch the Ukraine people being slaughtered while the world sits on their hands.....

I tend to think that’s exactly what Putin wants. He is borderline insane and if that were to happen, I have little doubt we would be staring at Armageddon.

But so far as NATO jumping in, they won’t, or perhaps can’t. It’s probably a violation of the charter to commit NATO to defend a country that has not joined NATO as though it were a member.

Curiously, both Sweden and Finland have long eschewed joining NATO, but both are now moving towards that.

I believe in his (black) heart, Putin wants the Soviet Union back. He says it was an unfortunate accident that Ukraine broke off and has been sending troops and arms to support the “separatists” in Ukraine for a long time. I wouldn’t be surprised if he caused the start of those separatist movements. This is exactly what he did in Crimea, except this time it’s not a cakewalk for him.

Thousands of innocent people are dying because of his psychotic dream, as well as untold soldiers on both sides (and let’s not even think about the cultural disaster this is). Some reports indicate that Russian troops are suffering losses as high as 1/3, which is not sustainable. And it’s not as though the Ukrainians will simply walk away from the cities he has besieged; he won’t have enough troops to continue forward progress and protect against guerilla warfare. At some point as victory slips further from him it seems likely he will order the use of chemical or biological arms, and what a horrific thought that is.

 

[rootabaga]

For anyone who hasn’t seen it, I’d highly recommend this PBS Frontline piece on Putin’s road to war. It covers a lot of ground in only an hour. It opens with his security council “briefing” in which it is clear he coached them all on what to say. The fact that it’s now against the law to say anything derogatory about the Russian military or the “action” in Ukraine has squelched protests, and those who really speak out against Putin have historically been poisoned or assassinated.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/putins-road-to-war/

 

[ocnbrze]

i have been following Pu$$y Riot after seeing their documentary which follows how 3 members from the group were sent to jail after one of their protest songs was performed in a church. this was my first intro to how terrible putin is.

you may not like their art, but their willingness to stand up to putin is inspirational. it is their punk attitude that i adore in these girls. they are not afraid to fight and stand up for what they believe in.

here is the trailer to the documentary:

here is some more about them:

 

[Dannydet]

Those links are fixed ...

 

[ocnbrze]

Those links are broken...

One is just age restricted. Of you click on "watch on YouTube" it will take you to YouTube to play the video.

 

[puppykickr]

How can anyone not see or admit that NATO was the cause of all of this?

Time and time again, the verbal promises to Russia regarding expansion of NATO have been violated.

Not to mention that Ukraine has a large and vocal Nazi element as well.

Then there is that thing that Ukraine has with child porn.

When you look at the issue through more than what the media shows you, things are not what they seem.

Now, just why would Putin attack Ukraine now, instead of when Trump was president?
Didn't the media say that Trump was a pawn of Putin?

And wasn't Obama president when Putin annexxed Chrimea?

So now, the media tells us that we are to support Ukraine- but that Pizzagate, Podesta's e-mails, Hillary's emails, Obama's e-mails, Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, and Hunter Biden's laptop are "Nothing to see here, folks, move along!"

 

[ocnbrze]

what is with you guys and child porn? i mean pizza gate? now you are just talking conspiracies again.

i hope you do not live like this guy

 

[Dannydet]

Wow.
I'm going to start wearing my tin foil hat soon...
Child porn and Nazis?
Get real, puppykickr...

 

[rootabaga]

Wow.
I'm going to start wearing my tin foil hat soon...
Child porn and Nazis?
Get real, puppykickr...

I’m assuming he’s being deeply sarcastic, parroting the Kremlin propaganda.

 

[puppykickr]

Actually, no.
Ukraine is (at least) number 3 in the world for child porn, and they supported the Nazis during WW2 and still celebrate this fact today.

Didnt anyone else take History in school?

 

[rootabaga]

Actually, no.
Ukraine is (at least) number 3 in the world for child porn, and they supported the Nazis during WW2 and still celebrate this fact today.

Didnt anyone else take History in school?

Not sure where you are getting your stats; these are the top five at least pre-Covid:

I have no particular love for Ukraine, but I have lots of ill will towards aggression, brutality and war crimes, all of which are reflected in Putin’s war campaign.

Also, even assuming the truth of your allegations, is that really a reason to support what Putin is doing? He’s not exactly what anyone would call a “brand ambassador,” and the fact that he spends much of his time trying to silence or expel anyone who disagrees with him reflects a very Nazi-like philosophy, doesn’t it? Do you really think he gives a rat’s patootie about kiddie porn or Nazis? As long as he’s in control and no one challenges him, he could care less what people are up to. Russia is a hotbed of hackers and Putin feigns ignorance of that, because their activities are directed outward. Is it better that he gains control of a larger area and population with more natural resources for him to skim off profits?

 

[ocnbrze]

Didnt anyone else take History in school?

LMAO.....sorry i was too busy in grade school learning about Critical Race Theory that they did not teach history. it sucked because i had to read college books and the teacher used extremely hard terminology........and i did not even earn any college credits for the class!!!!!!

 

[mikedt]

<lurking>

 

[Dannydet]

The bottom line is,
No society is perfect.
No society should have to endure the horror of war.
Don't use your ethical makeup, political parties or social status as a means of condemnation towards any race, creed, or color.

 

[ocnbrze]

what's inspiring is how Ukraine is standing up to the mighty power of Russia.. Putin thought that this would be an easy and quick event. i also admire Zelenskyy. he is proving to be a great leader.....not backing down or not showing any cowardice to Putin. he had many opportunities to evacuate, but he chose to stay and fight among his people.

plus i hear that Putin is running out of troops, military equipment,, and resources.

 

[Windroid]

To be honest: I find the "Stand with Ukraine" talk disingenuous. Ukraine's hardly the only country to be invaded by another country: My own country, the United States, invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet the US was not boycotted left and right, and shut off from the world economy. So no, this outrage isn't really about one country invading another. Something else is going on here!

That said: War is always sad. The civilians and soldiers on both sides deserve our sympathies.

 

[Hadron]

There is doubtless an element of it due to Ukraine being a major European country while Iraq and Afghanistan are "far away" places that fewer people in the West care about. There's also the fact that strategic and economic relations of many countries with the US are different: the invasion of Iraq was deeply unpopular in many countries, including prominent "allies", but that wasn't going to make their governments boycott the US (it was unpopular because it was obviously on a false pretext, even if Saddam was a murderous shit. And the fact that the US and others had spent decades supporting him and turning a blind eye to his atrocities, and continued to turn a blind eye to other autocrats's behaviour, made arguments on that front hard to swallow too).

Though there are differences: the US was not going to claim that Iraq and Afghanistan were part of the US, they weren't going deport large numbers of Afghani children to the US for re-education, etc. There were reasonable suspicions about commercial exploitation, at least in Iraq, but permanent annexation was clearly not the plan.

So yes, hypocrisy in international relations is, sadly, nothing new. But the weak response to other wars of aggression does not justify indifference to this one. And it's also extremely unlikely that Putin plans to stop there: certainly the people of many Baltic countries do not believe this, and many of them have previously suffered attempted incursions from Russia or Russian-backed groups. And for sure one of the things Putin is counting on is people saying "this isn't my problem", "this is too expensive" or similar excuses and leaving him to get on with it (the words of some US politicians recently no doubt encourage him in this respect).

 

[Windroid]

So yes, hypocrisy in international relations is, sadly, nothing new. But the weak response to other wars of aggression does not justify indifference to this one.

It does, however, justify a strong suspicion that something else is going on! Perhaps more to the point: I find this talk of "Russia's evil for invading Ukraine" immature, it reminds me less mature responses to the US invasion of Iraq and Afganastan. Are there valid reasons to oppose the invasion (be it of Iraq, Afghanistan, or Ukraine)? Of course! Is "America is evil, and invading another country is evil." one of them? No, it is not! The question is: Why is one country invading another, and are those reasons strong enough to warrant an invasion?

Russia has legitimate concerns and grievances with the post-coup (i.e. Euromaidan) Ukrainian government. Does that mean Russia should have invaded Ukraine? I see that as a political issue on which reasonable people can disagree. Regardless, war is sad.

 

[Windroid]

they supported the Nazis during WW2 and still celebrate this fact today.

Let's be fair here: Ukraine was a battleground between Nazi Germany and Communist Russia. Neither of those are good options! Yes, there were Ukrainians who fought on the side of Nazi Germany, because they didn't want their country to be ruled by Communist Russia. But how can we blame them? It was a messed-up situation with no good options.

 

[Bearsyzf]

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
What really gets me is that Ukraine is not part of Nato...
Well then, how about sending in military forces from the Nato countries into Ukraine and occupy it? Then see what Putin does. If he attacks then he'll be destroyed.
I just can't watch the Ukraine people being slaughtered while the world sits on their hands.....

I love the first sentence of what you said, i heard it first from Gibbs on N.C.I.S