Words can't express how appalling this is..

[Deleted User]

Not sure where exactly to post this, but I just had to say something about a most awful news report regarding a cultural tradition in Malawi.

Apparently it's a form of ' cleansing' for young girls to be forced to have sex with a paid man. This isn't seen as rape, but rather an encouraged traditional ritual.

As you read this article it becomes worse and worse. The most awful thing is that this paid man, or 'hyena' as they call them, supposedly chosen for that role because of his high moral standards, is actually HIV positive. He doesn't tell the girl's parents this. So rather than 'cleansing' (whatever that means), he potentially wrecks these girls' lives by infecting them with this disease.

Truly appalling, and I can't believe we share the same planet with these people!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36843769

 

[Gmash]

Totally disgusting. It's hard to believe some of the things still going on in the world in this day and age. Some places still perform "female circumcision" (mutilation). Mostly it's societies where the men have far too much power over women and they will go to any length to cling to that power and control. The most baffling thing to me is how these men must consider their daughters to have no value whatsoever beyond serving men. Sad.

 

[Deleted User]

Yes, FGM (female genital mutilation) is another tradition of some cultures, and has no place in modern society. The astonishing thing is there were over 1700 victims of FGM in the UK over the last two years!

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing...-genital-mutilation-fgm/fgm-facts-statistics/

 

[Windroid]

That's what happens when you follow cultural norms, when you do what's expected of you, without stopping to ask yourself if you're doing the right thing.

FGM (female genital mutilation) is another tradition of some cultures

Condemning female genital mutilation, without condemning male genital mutilation as well, is a double-standard! Circumcising children is either acceptable behavior, or it's not. The child's gender doesn't matter.

 

[Hadron]

To be fair though, FGM is of a completely different order from circumcision: it would be more akin to removal of the external part of the penis. That's also why the term "female genital mutilation" has replaced the old euphemistic "female circumcision" (which didn't make grammatical sense anyway, as it's not "cutting around" anything). I'm not a fan of cosmetic or cultural modifications to a child's body (I hate it when I occasionally see a young child with pierced ears), but please do not compare these 2 practices because using that language enables the perpetrators of FGM by playing-down what's involved.

 

[Windroid]

it would be more akin to removal of the external part of the penis. [...] please do not compare these 2 practices because using that language enables the perpetrators of FGM by playing-down what's involved.

If the difference is degree, not gender, then "female genital mutilation" is the wrong term. It's language that enables the perpetrators by playing-down what's involved.

 

[Hadron]

No, female genital mutilation is a factually correct term. You could of course refer to circumcision as "male genital mutilation", and that would also be factually correct. But referring to FGM as "circumcision" is factually incorrect (it's excision rather than circumcision), and using the term associated with a much less severe practice that is widespread in males in the USA (for reasons I've never understood) as well as in Jewish and Islamic cultures is playing it down.

 

[Windroid]

No, female genital mutilation is a factually correct term.

Factually correct, yes, but highly misleading! To condemn "female genital mutilation" makes it sound like your objecting because of the gender. That you oppose the mutilation of females, but not males.

Correct me if I'm wrong: You're not objecting because of gender. You're objecting, because the mutilation of girls in Africa and the Middle-East is far more extreme than the mutilation of boys in America.

Edit: In other words: I'm not arguing that "circumcision" is the term you should be using. I'm just saying: You're misrepresenting your own position when you say "female genital mutilation".

 

[Davdi]

Well "Female Genital Mutilation" is exactly what it is. I'm objecting because it IS mutilation not because it only affects (usually) young girls. IF something as extreme happened to males I'd object to that just as strongly.

 

[Windroid]

Well "Female Genital Mutilation" is exactly what it is. I'm objecting because it IS mutilation not because it only affects (usually) young girls. IF something as extreme happened to males I'd object to that just as strongly.

If you don't consider the circumcision, as practiced in the United States, extreme enough to qualify as "mutilation": Why do you say "female genital mutilation"? Why not just say "genital mutilation"?

 

[ocnbrze]

I'm circumcised...... and it's not mutilated. Plus being circumcised has many health benefits.

Circumcision | Circumcision Benefits | MedlinePlus

Circumcision is the removal of the foreskin, the skin that covers the tip of the penis. Read about the medical benefits and risks to circumcision.

medlineplus.gov

 

[ocnbrze]

"Female circumcision" is mutilation as you are removing the female clitoris Now if the head of my pennies was removed, than I would have been mutilated as well.

 

[Windroid]

I'm circumcised...... and it's not mutilated. Plus being circumcised has many health benefits.

Helth benefits: That kind of talk is also used to justify female genital mutilation! No, circumcision didn't become a American cultural tradition because doctors discovered health benefits to it. American doctors "discovered" health benefits to circumcision, because circumcision became a American cultural tradition.

"Female circumcision" is mutilation as you are removing the female clitoris Now if the head of my pennies was removed, than I would have been mutilated as well.

Certainly, removing the head of the penis is worse than just removing just the foreskin! But to amputate part of a baby's body, for non-medical reasons, is barbaric.

 

[amp4ever]

I'm American... from dallas texas living in England these days lol.... don't ask.

I know it might be TMI..... but I am just going to put it out there that from my own perspective, as a female who has umm... relations with the opposite sex from time to time, that I have been acquainted with both the hooded fellows and the bald no hat wearing ones, and I'll tell you what the circumcised ones, about 80 percent of the time, are just..... fresher if that makes sense. There is a gunk that builds under the hoods of uncircumcised pickles that never ever is present with the circumcised ones. Not always, but again about 80 percent of the time, they smell fresher too. Just saying from my own experience.

I think people get too caught up on certain aspects of things these days and everyone is on edge all the time... such is the nerve wrecking nature of life as of late here on earth. Offense taken too easily. Mistaking words spoken too quickly. The daily jargon a delicate bubble popped in an instant.

IMHO, I think semantics has taken away from this discussion. Personally, the way I see it is the following:

Anyone who is not an evil sadist child predator doesn't do right by any true blue mutilation done to children. No one with a heart wants them to suffer. Girl or boy who gives a shit its not cool end of all around.

The girls getting the clipping thing done to them is def on the extreme side of things and I can understand why anyone would be against it. It is, however, a cultural thing and if it was just that I could see how some in that culture would find it normal, cause in their society it simply is. They don't cut the head of the clit off from what i understand they cut the excess skin around it I could be wrong about that but it is what I was taught. People in different cultures live very very differently. I dont agree with it don't get me wrong I am just saying it's just what it is and it ain't what it ain't. Now the whole sex with a paid man thing is disgusting and unforgivable that is just how I feel on that. Sex shouldn't be used like that on anyone ever. Especially the aids thing, that is sick and one should be hanged for such an atrocity.

I guess I'll sound double standard here but see its cause I am American and it is the norm in my culture, I think its OK either way it goes whether the child is circumcised or not. I remember when my little brother got it done I was like 5 years old and he wasn't in too much pain really only a few days of discomfort and that's it. Done. They do it right away when they're born just about. It is done for various reasons but on the whole I don't see it as torture or brutality. And however we came to find out the health benefits is now besides the point, we do know that it is generally a more cleaning healthy option. I think that it is fine either way. My parents are sweet loving people they didn't torture my brother they aren't evil or cruel... the culture thing is a- well a thing. Again, if something is a culture normality that is disgusting and sick and frankly perverse on its face like sex with children etc then yeah it doesn't matter if that is what your people are into its time to look at it for what it really is and accept its wrong. Mayhap even be a bastion for change and advocate to your fellow brethren if at all able to think twice on that tradition. Then again if you don't have free speech you gotta be careful talking stuff like that cause you'll be eaten alive.

Anyway that's my take on it ‍♀️

 

[ocnbrze]

I'm American... from dallas texas living in England these days lol.... don't ask.

The girls getting the clipping thing done to them is def on the extreme side of things and I can understand why anyone would be against it. It is, however, a cultural thing and if it was just that I could see how some in that culture would find it normal, cause in their society it simply is. They don't cut the head of the clit off from what i understand they cut the excess skin around it I could be wrong about that but it is what I was taught. People in different cultures live very very differently. I dont agree with it don't get me wrong I am just saying it's just what it is and it ain't what it ain't. Now the whole sex with a paid man thing is disgusting and unforgivable that is just how I feel on that. Sex shouldn't be used like that on anyone ever. Especially the aids thing, that is sick and one should be hanged for such an atrocity.

though it is still practiced in a few countries, this is what the World Health Organization has to say about that:

The practice of FGM is recognized internationally as a violation of the human rights of girls and women. It reflects deep-rooted inequality between the sexes and constitutes an extreme form of discrimination against girls and women. It is nearly always carried out by traditional practitioners on minors and is a violation of the rights of children. The practice also violates a person's rights to health, security and physical integrity; the right to be free from torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment; and the right to life, in instances when the procedure results in death. In several settings, there is evidence suggesting greater involvement of health care providers in performing FGM due to the belief that the procedure is safer when medicalized. WHO strongly urges health care providers not to perform FGM and has developed a global strategy and specific materials to support health care providers against medicalization.

and there are degrees as to how much is removed. in most instances the clit is either partially removed or completely removed.

this is not done for health benefits. this is done for social reasons and is completely barbaric.

read this:

Female genital mutilation

Female genital mutilation (FGM) includes procedures that intentionally alter or cause injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons.

www.who.int

 

[Windroid]

I know it might be TMI.....

We're talking about the circumcision/genital mutilation of children, so your personal sexual preferences aren't relevant here. If the child grows up then decides he wants circumcision, that's another matter.

It is, however, a cultural thing and if it was just that I could see how some in that culture would find it normal, cause in their society it simply is.

"Cultural thing" is a fancy way of saying "But all my friends are doing it!". The appropriate response to that is: "If all of your friends jumped off of a cliff, would you?".

And however we came to find out the health benefits is now besides the point, we do know that it is generally a more cleaning healthy option. I think that it is fine either way.

You're missing the point: I'm not saying that we know of health benefits because male circumcision became an American cultural tradition. I'm saying that Americans invented "health benefits" to justify an American cultural tradition

My parents are sweet loving people they didn't torture my brother they aren't evil or cruel... the culture thing is a- well a thing.

Being parents themselves: They should know better than to do something just because all of their friends are doing it. If the only reason they can give for amputating the body part of a baby is "culture" (i.e. "but all my friends are doing it"): That is cruel! They may not be cruel people in general, but cutting off part of a baby's body for no better reason than "culture" is cruel.

Now the whole sex with a paid man thing is disgusting and unforgivable that is just how I feel on that. Sex shouldn't be used like that on anyone ever.

Oh yes. I've read that there's a similar practice on Latin America: Parents pressure teenage boys to have sex with prostitutes. Now, if we were talking about hormone-filled teenagers who chose to see a prostitute because they wanted sex, that would be far less objectionable. But to pressure or force someone (especially a teenager) into having sex, that makes me angry!

It's not just Africa and Latin America where people are pressured into sex, it's everywhere. Here's another example: Some men will pressure their male friends into having sex, to "make a man out of them". I could list countless other examples of the ways people are pressured into sex. But what's important is this: If you try to control the sex lives of other people (aside from objecting to adultery), you're rapey!

 

[treb1797]

I regret clicking on this thread. Honestly can't believe we allow conversations like this on this platform. But whatever....

 

[Windroid]

I regret clicking on this thread. Honestly can't believe we allow conversations like this on this platform. But whatever....

I half-agree with you: I can't believe my country condones the genital mutilation of infants. I can't believe this is even a conversation. It'd be one thing if we were debating a religious expiation. But we're not. So far, I'm the only one here who's said "amputating part of a baby's body for non-medical reasons is barbaric". It'd be nice if we all agreed on that, it'd be nice if that just went without saying, and the only point of disagreement was on there should be a religious expiation.

Which shows why those parents pushed their daughters into having sex with prostitutes. Make something part of the culture, and people become blind to the horror of it.

 

[Windroid]

If we need any more reminders that the Islamic State is evil, here's an excerpt from "ISIS Women Accused of Turning Boys as Young as 13 Into a Human Stud Farm" by Anne Speckhard:

Two boys have come forward to claim they were victims in a twisted plot run by ISIS women that forced at least 10 young teenagers to try to impregnate dozens of women held in a detention center. “We are being forced to have sex with the ISIS women, to impregnate them,” Ahmet, 13, and Hamid, 14, told a guard at Camp al Hol in northeast Syria, according to Syrian Defense Force officials. “Can you get us out of here?”