Gun violence again...

[ocnbrze]

Let's face it.
Guns are easy to get.
Criminals and mentally impaired can easily get them.
If the threat is eliminated by carrying,
I say we all get concealed permits and pack a gun for our own protection.

This is the way....

soooooo you want to take this country back to the wild west days? where we have shout outs or duels out on the streets?

 

[ocnbrze]

Seems like every time I've bought a gun, sporting goods store, gun store or at a gun show, I've had to pass the same exact background check. It's been a while since I got one but as I recall it's a federal check...
How many people lie on these?
I have absolutely no issue with a mandatory waiting period so that each applicant can be fully vetted.

Sorry folks, I can't get rid of the quotes on my comment.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

fixed for you....sort of LOL
that sounds very reasonable with a longer wait time.

one question, these gun shows....never been to one. but isn't it true that there are no background checks or anything when you buy a gun at one of these events? like from private gun sellers?

 

[Dannydet]

Fight fire with fire...
Its the wild west right now anyways.

 

[ozonetrooper]

one question, these gun shows....never been to one. but isn't it true that there are no background checks or anything when you buy a gun at one of these events? like from private gun sellers?

All vendors that are FFL (Federal Firearm License), must conduct paperwork and run background checks !

A private seller is just like a meeting of two people on the street or your neighbor, no background check needed.

This is what is now named, "the gun show loop hole", when in reality it has nothing to do with gun shows. Any of us can buy and sell with anyone we so desire for now, there has been and is proposed efforts to stop this free trade practice.


Again, any purchase from a FFL must undergo the background check and complete Federal paperwork. (the same form Hunter Biden lied on !)

I have been to many gun shows in the past, back when good deals were to be had, now it is just retail prices, and every gun vendor I saw and bought from was FFL compliant

I disagree with the statement proclaiming guns are easy to obtain ... legally !

The goobernment has never been able to control crime or Black Markets and never will.

Joe Citizen who want to sell off one or two he had no need for can still do so for now, as it should be.

We passed the open carry, some time ago, and while some prefer to carry openly, most are concealed carry from my observations.

We have not had any wild wild west incidences either !

 

[puppykickr]

which is why we need more restriction on guns. you are right in that people kill people. guns themselves do not. like drunks who drive, you still have restrictions. you have to be a certain age to buy alcohol. you have to pass not only a written test, but also a driving test to prove your knowledge and skill to perform these tasks. its just too easy to buy a gun. the gun law we just pass will help. but we need to restrict young idiots who can't cope with life from getting their hands on a gun. the gun age should be boosted up to 21.....especially for those buying assault rifles....and yes i understand that the Highland Park shooter was 21.

right now nobody has a better solution to gun violence other than to restrict the sales of guns. yes i understand that guns are not necessarily the problem. it is more of a mental health issue. but until some one has a better solution, restricting the sales of guns, to make it harder for scum bags to get one is all we have......and yes i understand about the black market and the underground sales of guns as well as ghost guns.....so no matter how you restrict guns, they are still available.....but the idea is that it will be harder to get.

so......if you have a better solution to these mass shootings, i would love to here them. all i hear from folks are arguments on why guns should not be restricted. i do not hear solutions.

....and having more guns is not a solution. look at Uvalde. there were over 20 cops there on the scene and they waited for over 58 minutes before storming in. that was a cluster f@ck if you ask me. and they are still covering up what actually happened. and there is no way arming teachers with guns is the solution. i can't imagine my freshman Homeroom teacher in high school ever possessing a gun let alone shooting someone with it.

we need action folks. this just cant go on status quo......it can't. how many people have to die at the hands of an ar-15? how close to home will this have to be, before you change your view on guns?

The recent shootings in Chicago hapened in an area with the HIGHEST amount of gun restriction.

Just what gun laws, along with the 20,000 or so that have been enacted, do you think you can add to those that will make criminals follow the law?

You do know what the definition of a criminal is, don't you?

 

[puppykickr]

actually i am not talking about banning guns at all. i misspoke.....or is it misstyped? LOL

i just want it harder to get guns. i want people to bend over backwards in order for them to get a gun. its just to easy now. i would like to see high capacity guns get off of the streets, but i know that is not possible.

Have you ever tried to get one?
It doesn't sound like it.

What is your definition of 'high capacity'?

You do realize that reloading is a thing, and happened multiple times in the shooting in Chicago, right?

 

[ozonetrooper]

What is your definition of 'high capacity ?

Used to be anything more than a six shooter ...

Todays handguns are most all made to have 15 rounds as "normal" capacity.

A long arm with a fixed magazine is still held to a limit, (5 or 6 ?), but a detachable mag weapon is open for whatever capacity the magazine used.

The weapon is not a high capacity it is the ammo storage feeding device that determines how many rounds that weapon can fire.

We tried the assault weapons/high capacity magazine ban back with Clinton, it was allowed to "sunset", as it proved to be not instrumental in accomplishing anything.

The AR 15 shoots a 223/5.56 round if that is the configuration for such weapon, (they come in several calibers) ((the 223/5.56 has been the caliber in all of the recent shootings))

This is a 223/5.56 rifle, is this an assault weapon ?

This is an AR 15 223/5.56 rifle :

Same bullet same results when used on humans.

Beside cosmetic difference they are the exact same weapon !

Why are we afraid of something that "looks" like it is scary ?

 

[ocnbrze]

no doubt crimes where guns involved such as gang violence is one thing. but mass shootings are another thing. i would all of them to go away. but with these mass shootings, no where is safe. not in a school, bar, library, or a parade. here in the US, we should all feel safe where we gather and socialize. but it is coming to a point where it is not safe to go anywhere. is that what you want? no of course not. again making it harder to get a gun is a starting point.

getting help for the young folks is another. red flag laws will help. of course there will be people who abuse these laws. and there will be cases where it might not be effective for certain situations. but these are just something that we should at least try.

why are you guys not willing to give it a go? we need to do something.....SOMETHING!!!!!!!!

and @ozonetrooper the point is not the bullet. the point is an ar-15 can shoot those bullets at a clip of 45-60 rounds per minute. that is a lot of bullets in such a short time. the damage done by these types of guns are incredible. in Uvalde, some of these kids could not be identified because so much damage was done to their bodies that the only way they could verify them was thru DNA samples.

look i'm all for owning guns. i don't own a gun, but i do want one at some point. i know friends who have guns and have even shot some of those guns at shooting ranges.

but these mass shootings have to end. no other country has them. only in America does this happen. why is that?

 

[ocnbrze]

i really like this guy and he makes some really good points:

 

[Hadron]

Used to be anything more than a six shooter ...

Todays handguns are most all made to have 15 rounds as "normal" capacity.

A long arm with a fixed magazine is still held to a limit, (5 or 6 ?), but a detachable mag weapon is open for whatever capacity the magazine used.

The weapon is not a high capacity it is the ammo storage feeding device that determines how many rounds that weapon can fire.

We tried the assault weapons/high capacity magazine ban back with Clinton, it was allowed to "sunset", as it proved to be not instrumental in accomplishing anything.

The AR 15 shoots a 223/5.56 round if that is the configuration for such weapon, (they come in several calibers) ((the 223/5.56 has been the caliber in all of the recent shootings))

This is a 223/5.56 rifle, is this an assault weapon ?

This is an AR 15 223/5.56 rifle :

Same bullet same results when used on humans.

Beside cosmetic difference they are the exact same weapon !

Why are we afraid of something that "looks" like it is scary ?

Does the hunting rifle have a bolt action on the other side? And do high capacity magazines exist for it? Because if the answers are "yes" and "no" then the differences are more than cosmetic in a mass shooting situation.

But you raise an interesting point with the cosmetics: as @The_Chief observes, the AR15 isn't a military grade weapon. To an extent its styling is a marketing gimmick: this is a weapon intended to appeal to cosplayers, to people who want to own a scary-looking gun. Is its popularity with the high-profile mass shooters because you can shoot more people than with a hunting rifle, or is it because of the image (or a mixture of the two)? I don't think these mass shootings are simply down to firearms availability: their increased incidence in the last few decades suggests that they are at least in part a cultural phenomenon (though gun ownership, and the types of guns owned, also changes with time - with any complex problem, disentangling the factors is the tricky bit). Which does make me wonder whether these dress-up guns contribute to the problem: I'm not arguing that removing them would stop school shootings, but I can't help wonder whether their availability, marketing, and the culture around them may have helped lead some of the perpetrators down that path (questions you could ask more generally, but these weapons do seem to feature disproportionately, and I'm very unclear on what the purpose of these things is beyond "a lot of people will buy them").

 

[ozonetrooper]

what the purpose of these things is beyond "a lot of people will buy them"

Ahhh good ole USA entrepreneurism ...

some of these kids could not be identified because so much damage was done to their bodies that the only way they could verify them was thru DNA samples.

Same bullet different looking weapons deploying the salvo ! The same carnage would be the result if the shooter used a single shot bolt action rifle, it is not the look/name of the weapon, it is the bullet !

You are aware that the 223/5.56 was developed with input from the military, as a bullet to do the most damage, to our human enemies ?

It has a niche for other purposes, but the main concept was, for the stopping of the human threat.

Our enemies answer to that was the AK74/47 which is a 7.62 x 39 round. It also has a niche but was invented for one purpose, same as the 223/5.56 !

we need to do something.....SOMETHING!!!!!!!!

Knee jerk reactions are usually more detrimental than helpful.

 

[ocnbrze]

Ahhh good ole USA entrepreneurism ...



Same bullet different looking weapons deploying the salvo ! The same carnage would be the result if the shooter used a single shot bolt action rifle, it is not the look/name of the weapon, it is the bullet !

You are aware that the 223/5.56 was developed with input from the military, as a bullet to do the most damage, to our human enemies ?

It has a niche for other purposes, but the main concept was, for the stopping of the human threat.

Our enemies answer to that was the AK74/47 which is a 7.62 x 39 round. It also has a niche but was invented for one purpose, same as the 223/5.56 !






Knee jerk reactions are usually more detrimental than helpful.

Again no solutions....... sigh

 

[ozonetrooper]

Ok, I have the solution, take all of the mentally ill off the streets ....

Now is that what you are fishing for ???????

As that is not possible and any sort of feel good gun law is not a detrement, I see no way out at this time.

If we start taking away things from people, because of some whom can not behave, where does it stop ?

Is the thought of taking away vehicles, motorcycles, knives, spoons, etc. your idea of fixing it ?

If a killer has decided to kill, restricting access to a weapon is not going to curtail that, killers are killers, the implement of destruction is just a matter of which one ....

These types of killers are cowards, they pick on the unprotected and the young because there is less push-back than from a room full of concealed carry people ! ! ! !

Do not be jaded by the age or gender or ethnicity of a killer, a killer is a killer is a killer, wether a gun or a rock or a spoon is used.

(do a search of how many incarcerated victims have been killed by a fellow inmate with a plastic fork or spoon) ((I have worked in the jail system and have seen firsthand some of the weapons that are made))

 

[ocnbrze]

so do nothing is your solution. become numb to mass shootings. our society is going to shit, if we all let that happen

 

[puppykickr]

no doubt crimes where guns involved such as gang violence is one thing. but mass shootings are another thing. i would all of them to go away. but with these mass shootings, no where is safe. not in a school, bar, library, or a parade. here in the US, we should all feel safe where we gather and socialize. but it is coming to a point where it is not safe to go anywhere. is that what you want? no of course not. again making it harder to get a gun is a starting point.

getting help for the young folks is another. red flag laws will help. of course there will be people who abuse these laws. and there will be cases where it might not be effective for certain situations. but these are just something that we should at least try.

why are you guys not willing to give it a go? we need to do something.....SOMETHING!!!!!!!!

and @ozonetrooper the point is not the bullet. the point is an ar-15 can shoot those bullets at a clip of 45-60 rounds per minute. that is a lot of bullets in such a short time. the damage done by these types of guns are incredible. in Uvalde, some of these kids could not be identified because so much damage was done to their bodies that the only way they could verify them was thru DNA samples.

look i'm all for owning guns. i don't own a gun, but i do want one at some point. i know friends who have guns and have even shot some of those guns at shooting ranges.

but these mass shootings have to end. no other country has them. only in America does this happen. why is that?

So, how do you suppose we make it harder for criminals to get guns, while not infringing upon the rights of people that are not criminals?

You do realize that you can carry more than one gun at a time, right?
Capacity means very little.
I have carried three handguns at the same time.
That would give me 22 rounds before a reload, and one of those handguns had three more magazines of 10 each.

I can promise you that making it harder for you or me to get guns will not stop a single mass shooting anywhere.

Back when there was less restriction on guns, and guns were literally everywhere and more accessible, there were less shootings of all kinds.
People acted differently.

It is the population that is the problem, not the tools they use.

 

[ozonetrooper]

our society is going to shit,

I could not agree more, yet I do not blame inanimate objects, as the cause.

I participated in ROTC in High School and we had a rifle range on the top floor of the High School ! (I earned a sharpshooter medal and participated in the matches regularly)

People carried long guns in rifle racks in the back window of their pickup trucks.

We never had a school mass shooting back then ....

Things that make yah go hummmmm.

 

[ozonetrooper]

I have carried three handguns at the same time.
That would give me 22 rounds before a reload, and one of those handguns had three more magazines of 10 each.

My EDC is a Glock 17 with a 17 round mag, I carry two extra loaded mags in the truck and have 3 on the night stand.

A good boy scout is always prepared !

 

[ozonetrooper]

Oddly the focus of this discussion is on the evils of high capacity magazines for the AR15 platform of weapons when there is so much more out there.

for my G17 (handgun):

 

[ocnbrze]

 

[ozonetrooper]

Sorry could not watch more past 2:38, not the subject matter, it is who is presenting it ....

Huummmm, to stop a bad guy with a gun it takes a good guy with a gun .

Lets run that by the Secret Service details that carry full tilt machine guns to protect their clients.

Also, lets check with the private details hired and paid for by the rich and famous.

And not to forget, our local law enforcement agencies, certainly those good guys stop bad guys with guns daily.


Sooo, how is it the above examples do not signal a need for Joe Citizen to be afforded the same luxury ????????


And do not go into how they are professionals, yada yada yada : (any idea how big of a hole a .40 cal makes in a human foot ?)

 

[ocnbrze]

again.....no solutions. you are just defending your right to own a gun. like i said earlier, i understand that guns are not what kills people. people kill people.

i do not want to take guns away from you. i just want tighter restrictions on gun sales.

and how could you not like Jon Stewart. he is such a good actor and comedian. he made the Daily Show to what it is today......you probably don't even watch that.....toooo bad cuz its a great show. Trevor Noah is great. but he owes his greatness to Jon Stewart.

but he at least has an idea. prevent all domestic violence abusers from getting a gun. i'm not saying take any guns he already owns. but at least prevent him from buying new ones. this may not prevent mass shootings, but might help in gun violence overall. It's a step in the right direction.

 

[ozonetrooper]

again.....no solutions. you are just defending your right to own a gun.

Wrong again ! I want to defend everyone's right to self protection, not what some knee jerk lawmaker deems.

Want to stop the killings ? Get rid of the killers.

Hows that for a solution ?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back in the 90s, Congress passed the Domestic Violence Offender Gun Ban, also known as the Lautenberg Amendment.

Currently, the Lautenberg Act bans those convicted of domestic violence from purchasing a gun

https://www.vice.com/en/article/mbxvqv/domestic-violence-abusers-can-still-legally-purchase-guns


Next ....

 

[ozonetrooper]

Frequently Asked Questions About Domestic Violence and Firearms

To be fair there are are 3 instances when the law does not apply, not sure which instance your claim is about :


https://www.americanprogress.org/article/frequently-asked-questions-domestic-violence-firearms/


You really should get your facts from somewhere else than a biased comedian ....

 

[ozonetrooper]

Not to start a who shot John argument, but have you watched the latest videos released on the the Uvalde shooting?

Seems the police were afraid to approach the classroom opting to congregate in the hallway while the shooter took lives.

Seems there is plenty of blame to go around besides an inanimate object.

 

[ocnbrze]

and yet another loser white boy goes on another shooting rampage!!!!!!!!!

and this time a good guy with a gun ended the loser's life.