I believe that marijuana should be legal (discussion)

[tommy_ed]

the union is a GREAT documentary!! Bob, you should check it out for sure

 

[Bob Maxey]

In the child support thread, you mention laws in place not for the majority, but the minority. Why does it not fit here? BTW, MILLIONS of people take RX drugs. Far more than smoke pot. Now, certainly pot usage will rise IF it were to be made legal, but I highly doubt it will reach the level of RX's.

Stop comparing perscription drugs to MJ. Not even close to being comparable.

 

[nlsme]

Stop comparing perscription drugs to MJ. Not even close to being comparable.

Says you. I see millions of people on RX drugs, far more than smoke pot. And, RX drugs impair ones cognative abilities far more than pot does. So what IF you need a prescription. The DANGER is still there, and there is no test to determine how messed up someone is on RX's.

 

[tommy_ed]

Stop comparing perscription drugs to MJ. Not even close to being comparable.

haha funny, because it IS a prescription drug in a few states. So yes, they are most definitely "comparable"

 

[ssick92]

Stop comparing perscription drugs to MJ. Not even close to being comparable.

You should probably learn more about Medical Marijuana before saying a sentence like that...

In fact, MMJ is BETTER than prescription drugs because it has virtually no dependence, it isnt physically addictive in any way, and it has very slight to no negative health effects on the user. Can you say that for prescription drugs? I feel like all I hear during commercials for prescription pills are the side effects, usually which have something to do with heart attack or stroke which can lead to DEATH. Marijuana has no such side effects. The only side effects of marijuana is being hungry, happy, and sleepy...

 

[BiggestManEver]

I just thought I'd mention it, but if you are pulled over, you can refuse to do a field sobriety test or brethalyzer. But, if you refuse those, they will take a blood sample. Which means you'll have to be placed under arrest until the results are returned.

 

[OutofDate1980]

I believe there is a legal limit and if you are caught over the limit, you go through a stark reality: the DUI charge and associated costs.

It does not matter if you can function while loaded. What matters is you are over the limit.

Not sure I can address the incompetence of the typical driver. If he is below the legal limit, then OK. No arrest unless he breaks the law. As for your friend, apparently, he did not break the law.



So we use hemp to replace cotton. Why? We already understand cotton, so why bother with hemp?

Costs perhaps? Bob does not know. Perhaps yield per acre is too low compared to cotton or some other reason it is not more widely used. There is that federal law, I suppose. Again, Bob is not a hemp head.

There are some natural materials that can replace many plastics, but they are dangerous and/or costly to make. For example, Casein and Celluloid. I recently read a post on another list that mentioned these specific polymers and the writer simply had ZERO idea about these alternatives.

Casein can take a year to produce in a size suitable for making items like fountain pens and duck calls, and Celluloid from cotton is explosive.

Can you provide a link that looks at the costs of hemp Vs. cotton?

I just thought I'd mention it, but if you are pulled over, you can refuse to do a field sobriety test or brethalyzer. But, if you refuse those, they will take a blood sample. Which means you'll have to be placed under arrest until the results are returned.

Actually, the officer can refuse to let you take a breath or blood test and charge you. All the officer need to do is say you refused to take test. Who is the court or jury likely to believe ?

 

[thelonewizard]

In my opinion, I feel that marijuana should be legalized federally in the United States. I agree completely with everything in the failed Proposition 19.

As we are currently in a debt crisis and can't figure out how to get out, why not legalize and tax marijuana for some extra dough?

According to estimates from 2008, (http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345157c669e20120a6e7ee0b970b-250wi), the United States would bring in just under a billion dollars a year in marijuana taxes. However, I believe the government would be able to rake in much more than that. It was estimated (sorry, I forget where I read it) that if legalized, California alone would bring in over $1 billion in taxes. This is after a $50 per oz. tax on marijuana.

TL;DR If it's natural, why not make better use of it?

 

[lordofthereef]

Because mj is illegal and i have chronic back and knee pain, caused during my military career I am currently on Valium, mobic, ambien and vicodin. This is the governments way of keeping me going since medical mj is illegal. So until I retire in two years, I am relegated to constant use of these drugs, which by the way are habit forming. As far as I know mj is not habit forming. Gotta love situaions like these.

This is a fantastic argument FOR legalizing marijuana for medical purposes. Out of curiosity, have you tried using MJ to see if it would actually help you? It is possible that the drugs you are on ARE the only drugs that would help you. (please only respond if you are comfortable).

In my opinion, I feel that marijuana should be legalized federally in the United States. I agree completely with everything in the failed Proposition 19.

As we are currently in a debt crisis and can't figure out how to get out, why not legalize and tax marijuana for some extra dough?

According to estimates from 2008, (http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345157c669e20120a6e7ee0b970b-250wi), the United States would bring in just under a billion dollars a year in marijuana taxes. However, I believe the government would be able to rake in much more than that. It was estimated (sorry, I forget where I read it) that if legalized, California alone would bring in over $1 billion in taxes. This is after a $50 per oz. tax on marijuana.

TL;DR If it's natural, why not make better use of it?

That's the thing. The taxes argument sounds good to the masses, but once we start talking about lawmakers, that is chump change in the grand scheme of things, and that is how they think. "Every little bit counts" should be the mantra, but sadly it isn't.

You should probably learn more about Medical Marijuana before saying a sentence like that...

In fact, MMJ is BETTER than prescription drugs because it has virtually no dependence, it isnt physically addictive in any way, and it has very slight to no negative health effects on the user. Can you say that for prescription drugs? I feel like all I hear during commercials for prescription pills are the side effects, usually which have something to do with heart attack or stroke which can lead to DEATH. Marijuana has no such side effects. The only side effects of marijuana is being hungry, happy, and sleepy...

• Problems with memory and learning
• Distorted perception
• Difficulty with thinking and problem solving
• Loss of coordination
• Increased heart rate
• Anxiety, paranoia and panic attacks

There are some of the MJ side-effects, the last two of which are the big hitters IMO, and all of which are more than hunger, happiness, and lethargy.

BTW I graduated from Cal Poly SLO in 2008. Animal Sciences. What are you studying?

 

[nlsme]

The side effects listed are not all that common. Some people do get anxious, paranoid, and even may have panic attacks. But, to most, mj has the exact opposite effect. Just as, some people have better learning, problem solving skills on mj.

 

[lordofthereef]

The side effects listed are not all that common. Some people do get anxious, paranoid, and even may have panic attacks. But, to most, mj has the exact opposite effect. Just as, some people have better learning, problem solving skills on mj.

Certainly not. I am simply pointing this out because the side effects of many (not all) rx drugs are also uncommon. Heart attack, stroke, etc. were used as some examples. Those are not "common" side effects, but rather serious ones that legally need to be noted.

As an example, a "side-effect" of antibiotics is diarrhea, which in extremely rare cases can lead to dehydration. Though it is fairly uncommon, it is still listed as a side-effected on many (again, not all) of these types of drugs.

I suspect that marijuana intended for recreational use will have some sort of surgeon general's warning (or something similar). Now that I think about it, that is yet another thing that would likely have to be "ironed out" before nationwide legalization is accepted.

 

[OutofDate1980]

• Problems with memory and learning
• Distorted perception
• Difficulty with thinking and problem solving
• Loss of coordination
• Increased heart rate
• Anxiety, paranoia and panic attacks

There are some of the MJ side-effects, the last two of which are the big hitters IMO, and all of which are more than hunger, happiness, and lethargy.

BTW I graduated from Cal Poly SLO in 2008. Animal Sciences. What are you studying?

Could you supply link(s) to support the listed side-effects ? The reason being there was a government funded studies that linked marijuana to brain damage in monkeys by Dr. Robert Heath, but was later found the monkey's were suffocated and oxygen deprivation was the cause of brain damage. Later studies also discredited Dr. heath's study by a pair of better controlled, much larger monkey studies, one by Dr. William Slikker of the National Center for Toxicological Research and the other by Charles Rebert and Gordon Pryor of SRI International.

I appears sometimes the result of studies can be biased and reflect the viewpoints of those that sponsor the study, so methodology is important.

This is not to say the side-effects you listed are not valid, only that links which may lead to the methodology used to conclude these side-effects, duration, dosage, etc., would be useful. I might add the listed side-effects for marijuana appears similar to those I've seen for alcohol.

 

[Aggie12]

Stop comparing perscription drugs to MJ. Not even close to being comparable.

Umm yes, you can compare them. 16 states recognize it as a prescription medicine. And I can't tell you how many people I've seen ruin their lives with RX pills. I have yet to see someone ruin their life with MJ.

And both of those documentaries previously posted are awesome. The Union is probably the best one out there. I saw run from the cure a few months ago and it was definitely awesome as well. For anyone against MJ I encourage you to spend some time watching these and you will see hopefully that it being illegal is completely wrong.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Umm yes, you can compare them. 16 states recognize it as a prescription medicine. And I can't tell you how many people I've seen ruin their lives with RX pills. I have yet to see someone ruin their life with MJ.

And both of those documentaries previously posted are awesome. The Union is probably the best one out there. I saw run from the cure a few months ago and it was definitely awesome as well. For anyone against MJ I encourage you to spend some time watching these and you will see hopefully that it being illegal is completely wrong.

Two separate issues are being mixed in this thread: the medical uses of the plant and the recreational uses. Many people wanting MJ made legal often point to the supposed medical applications and uses and they use that as a talking point to somehow make us thing MJ should be legalized for everyone.

One has nothing to do with the other.

If whatever it is in MJ that offers legitimate medical relief could be put into pill form without any side effects like euphoria, that would not be good enough for many. People simply want to get high and they want MJ.

I saw a 60 Minutes story about medical MJ abuse in California. Apparently, just about anything goes if a "doctor" can find a reason, you will be given a prescription. The shops that sold the stuff do not care about its benefits; they want legalization so they can make money.

If there is a good medical reason for it, fine. Legalize it for that use and make getting a prescription difficult. If you need it, you can get it. Tighten up the rules and make it as difficult to get as other drugs like opiates.

As for across the board legalization, God no. We do not need more problems.

Finally, I find it interesting that tobacco is on its way out through huge taxes and crap science about second hand smoke dangers. So why make yet one more thing to smoke legal?

 

[Aggie12]

Two separate issues are being mixed in this thread: the medical uses of the plant and the recreational uses. Many people wanting MJ made legal often point to the supposed medical applications and uses and they use that as a talking point to somehow make us thing MJ should be legalized for everyone.

One has nothing to do with the other.

If whatever it is in MJ that offers legitimate medical relief could be put into pill form without any side effects like euphoria, that would not be good enough for many. People simply want to get high and they want MJ.

I saw a 60 Minutes story about medical MJ abuse in California. Apparently, just about anything goes if a "doctor" can find a reason, you will be given a prescription. The shops that sold the stuff do not care about its benefits; they want legalization so they can make money.

If there is a good medical reason for it, fine. Legalize it for that use and make getting a prescription difficult. If you need it, you can get it. Tighten up the rules and make it as difficult to get as other drugs like opiates.

As for across the board legalization, God no. We do not need more problems.

Finally, I find it interesting that tobacco is on its way out through huge taxes and crap science about second hand smoke dangers. So why make yet one more thing to smoke legal?

I take it you've never heard of marinol? Supposed pill form of MJ. They neglected the fact that it's a multitude of chemicals in MJ that are responsible for the medical effects not just delta-9-THC.

You keep saying that we don't need more problems. That's the weakest argument I've heard to keep it illegal. It's not like with it illegal we don't have a problem with it. If that were the case the govt wouldn't spend millions to enforce it. And legalizing it wouldn't really add to any problems it would probably decrease the negative stigmas it has gotten over time. I don't think people would start using it just because it's legal. A lot of people just choose not to. Like me an hard drugs. I just choose not to do them. If they were all made legal I wouldn't start using meth. Because I don't want to.

You think opiates are hard to get? please. come to houston sometime. You can get anything you want there. Stuff you've probably never even heard of or knew existed.

There are other ways to benefit from MJ to besides smoking. Edibles? Tincture? Vaporizor? Lollipops?

 

[tommy_ed]

As for across the board legalization, God no. We do not need more problems.

Finally, I find it interesting that tobacco is on its way out through huge taxes and crap science about second hand smoke dangers. So why make yet one more thing to smoke legal?

i feel like we're talking in circles at this point. it's already readily available, and in fact it's MORE of a problem when it's illegal!!! what about that do you not yet understand?

Bob, please, please, please watch "The Union"... i feel like you're terribly misinformed about marijuana. If you are as involved in this subject as you seem to be, you owe it to yourself to at the very least get the facts straight. WATCH THE UNION!!!

The Union

 

[Adauth]

It will all come down the pipe eventually, The "war on drugs" is a joke, let alone winable. Why keep spending billions of dollars and an untold amount of manhours on something that will never ever stop. Put all that money and manhours toward education ( not stupid ass propaganda thats not true) on drugs and let people make up their own minds. What I do in my home ( as long as I am not endangering anyone else) is no ones buisness. We are slowing losing our freedoms everyday and most people don't seem to notice or worse, care. Sad really.

 

[lordofthereef]

You know, here is a thought that I just came up with reading through a few of the newer posts since I last logged on...

What about setting a precedent? Marijuana has been illegal for so long, I am sure there is fear of setting the "illicit drug legalization precedent". That is to say, what drug might be next. Heroin? Cocaine? LSD? Crystal Meth?

Please do not get me wrong here. I personally feel that marijuana is far FAR less dangerous than any of the other drugs listed here. In fact, I feel that it is even less dangerous than some of the legal drugs (tobacco, alcohol).

The issue I have is the argument people make of "my body, my rules". If we are using THAT argument, then why shouldn't all of the other drugs I mentioned be legalized if used in the privacy of one's home? I mean if I OD on coke, I only hurt myself, right?

You know, interestingly in many places in this country (USA) it is illegal to commit suicide. In many ways, I can see drug abuse as slow suicide (yet being an alcoholic is not illegal). For this reason, I think there is a little more to the picture than "let me do whatever I want with my own body".

 

[Frisco]

Great points, lordofthereef (can I call you reef for short? .. I know lordofthereefer is not right ).

But, when we hurt ourselves we do hurt loved ones, of course.

We all have to make decisions about what we do with that in mind, in my opinion.

 

[lordofthereef]

Sure,
Reef in my name actually stands for coral reef. I am a big slatwater nut!

 

[Lombardi]

I'm gonna by me one of them hydro gardens, and a vapoooorizer. Lol

 

[B2L]

Time for a thread resurrection, as I have said earlier in this thread I'm a huge supporter of decriminalizing/legalizing marijuana. Thanks to the Obama administration, the feds are now trying to shut down medicinal marijuana facilities in California.

Feds Crack Down on California Pot Dispensaries | TheBlaze.com

We are hurting as a country, and spending money to shut down dispensaries is just ridiculous, especially with how much those dispensaries have been paying towards taxes.

 

[Frisco]

I'm in favor of the decriminalization of marijuana. I think the "medical use" of it has been overblown by NORML and other advocacy groups, though. And that is what the Feds seize upon (in addition to existing federal law, of course).

Doctors disagreeing with the benefit findings by other doctors are not as vocal anymore, but the data seems to beg for further analysis.

Too bad about the "gateway drug" stigma on pot.. I'd like to see real data on that as well, although we sure do see pot and cocaine and meth being dealt by the same folks, unfortunately.

 

[OutofDate1980]

I'm in favor of the decriminalization of marijuana. I think the "medical use" of it has been overblown by NORML and other advocacy groups, though. And that is what the Feds seize upon (in addition to existing federal law, of course).

Doctors disagreeing with the benefit findings by other doctors are not as vocal anymore, but the data seems to beg for further analysis.

Too bad about the "gateway drug" stigma on pot.. I'd like to see real data on that as well, although we sure do see pot and cocaine and meth being dealt by the same folks, unfortunately.

I watched the Prohibition series by Ken Burns. Our current policy results in disrespect for the law, political and economic corruption, no health benefits. The big distributors, as in the Prohibition era, do not want legalization.

 

[pucky]

I wonder where in history does it ever show that by making a substance illegal it is no longer used or abused? The only effect it has is to criminalise it, to put big evil thugs in command and provide them with a wonderful easy income.
Alchohol is a habit forming substance and poisonous to the body yet it is legal. Is everyone an abuser? Does everyone drink large quantities of it whenever they can? No of course not.

A set part of the population is prone to addictions and risk seeking behaviour, they will do risky things no matter how much they are forbidden. Better to find use for these specific talents in stead if stigmatising them.